.SSA/.ASS Subtitles Rendered Strangely

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.SSA/.ASS Subtitles Rendered Strangely

Postby Callasan » Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:34 am

I'm using ConvertX in projects to convert combined video/audio files in the .MKV format to DVDs. A lot of the files have both external fonts in Truetype format as attachments, as well as both subititles (usually in Advanced SubStation .ass, or Substation Alpha .ssa format), and chapter files.

I know that ConvertX does not have native support for external fonts, so I've taken the font attachments (removed by using MKVExtract) and installing them as system fonts, then doing the encode. The results are quite strange, however - and I'll include screenshots of how strange they are.

The "karaoke" song subtitle is partially supported, so that "bouncing ball" subtitles are possible, just without fade/glow effects. The main issue is the main English subtitle, which appears at the bottom of the screen. It is NOT rendered in the original font (even though that's now installed as a system font, and as such should be), it's rendered non-antialiased and at THREE TIMES both the specified fontsize AND ConvertX's default font size. This is simply unacceptable, as the bottom subtitles ofen go past the screen edges, ignoring the viewable area entirely.

Screenshots attached show the original .mkv file played in ZoomPlayer, and the same scene played back from the ISO image created by ConvertX. Also included is a shot of my ConvertX subtitle settings screen.

Any advice or comments about how I can get the ConvertX output to at least partially match the original .ASS subtitles? As it is now, the program's bowrderline unusable for this project since it's ignoring the base font for the actual language subtitles (the song ones seem to be OK, though).
Attachments
ConvertX_Settings.jpg
Subtitle editor settings screen in ConvertX 4.0.9 with the settings I have in it.
ConvertX_Settings.jpg (107.43 KiB) Viewed 2025 times
ConvertX_Encode.jpg
Same scene after being converted to DVD format by ConvertX 4.0.9 Notice the bottom font.
ConvertX_Encode.jpg (103.49 KiB) Viewed 2025 times
Original_MKV.jpg
Original .MKV file, rendered in ZoomPlayer
Original_MKV.jpg (108.39 KiB) Viewed 2025 times
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Postby hansK » Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:48 am

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Postby Callasan » Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:02 pm

hansK wrote:http://forums.vso-software.fr/convertxtodvd-v4-0-v4-1-wish-list-t10650-40.html#p54990


1) I *DID* install the subtitle external font as a sysem font; if you'd read my OP you would have read that as well. ConvertX DID NOT use that font.

2) The link you posted states that karaoke effects were not supported - they partially are, however - which was unexpected but welcome.

3) That still does not explain the huge font substitution. In my defaults I had Arial 20 - the font used in the English subtitle is anything BUT Arial 20.

4) The font used in the English subtitle is not antialiased; therefore showing extreme cases of the jaggies.

Thanks for posting the link (though I already had - it was in response to a suggestion I had put there) - what I was asking (as was said in the OP) was "How can I get this to at least resemble the original .MKV picture, as in at least rendering a usable subtitle at something approaching the proper size, antialiased to remove jaggies"?

If you're trying to tell me that ConvertX can't do at least that, then they should remove support for SSA and ASS format subtitles permanently, and state that in the product description.

An I a little frustrated? Yes. I REALLY don't want to have to import each file into something like Premiere and have it do a hardcode - I'd like to keep my multilingual options intact. Not to mention how much time the double encode would tanke - AND the losses involved (original files are 720p resolution h.264/AAC)
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Postby JJ » Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:36 pm

Come on - support for those subtitles is limited to what can be done by DVD specs. It is not VSOs fault that people have been using those on computer and using lot more effects like antialias - those can not be done on DVD!
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Postby Callasan » Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:13 pm

JJ wrote:Come on - support for those subtitles is limited to what can be done by DVD specs. It is not VSOs fault that people have been using those on computer and using lot more effects like antialias - those can not be done on DVD!


*Sigh*.

Please look at the ConvertX screenshot posted above.

1) Notice that the karaoke font IS ANTIALIASED and not jagged.

2) Notice that the language subtitle (the bottom one) is heavily pixellated and THREE TIMES the size that it's supposed to be.

All that I am asking is that the language subtitle (the bottom one) be smooth and the same size that it is in the original MKV screenshot. You're saying that that's not within DVD spec?

The font issue isn't that a biggie - even with font substitution, the font shouldn't have scaled like THAT - even if the player is using a bitmapped font (which it shouldn't be). There's no excuse for that in a world of outline fonts.

Again, I ask: Is there any way to get the bottom subtitle to look like it does int he original .MKV file - at least, in terms of sizer and smoothness, since the concensys seems to be that I'm not going to get my original font, even if it was installed as a system font?
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Postby JJ » Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:15 pm

That karaoke part seems to be hardcoded, only way for it to be included in conversion.

Lower part is SSA/ASS subtitles. If you read manual (or search on this forum) you find that only SRT subtitles can be modified, all others try to use settings from original file. In this case - size and font.
And because it was designed to be displayed on computer, size is bigger due computers bigger screensize. This information is not checked by CxD and that is why it does not look good.

Convert those subtitles to SRT text only and you can change font, size, color etc.

Edit: Just tested this myself, and it works. You can use any font, just follow instructions on PDF manual (page 207).
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Postby Raven » Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:47 pm

You can try AVStoDVD, if you want those subtitles to show correctly. It's obviously not so impossible after all.

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Postby JJ » Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:32 pm

Raven: your example is totally different, and I already gave the solution on how to what OP wants.
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Postby -Detonation- » Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:24 pm

Different or not, IT WORKS.
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Postby eden » Tue May 18, 2010 4:37 pm

Raven, are those subtitles in your example ASS/SSA format, or SRT? I'm curious because I tried using AVSToDVD, but I only seem to be able to use SRT subs, so they look more or less like the output I get from ConvertXToDVD - not antialiased, etc. I didn't see any way to edit subtitle styles in AVSToDVD either.

[I'm not trying to compare/contrast relative merits or faults of either program - they're different - just genuinely curious.]
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