[Solved] Quality question

avi to dvd, convertxtodvd support, convertX help, video to dvd, mkv to dvd, divx to dvd, convert video, vso convert, video conversion software, video converter,

Moderators: cedric, ckhouston, JJ, Claire, Phil, felicia, Forum admin

[Solved] Quality question

Postby JohnD » Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:02 pm

Greetings and thank you for reading this post. I purchased ConvertXtodvd 5.1.0.2 to in order to make a DVD from a 51 minute 38GB .MOV file of my daughter's senior college recital. I think I chose the highest quality settings, however I find the result somewhat washed out with regard to color saturation and contrast. I have attached the ConvertX log and 3 screen shots of the same frame in the same player running on the same PC: the source, and DVD video from both ConvertX and an old free utility (FAVC using HCenc) which produced great VOB video but incorrect audio, causing my to try ConvertX. I attempted to attach PNG files as suggested in another post but this forum software said "entity too big" (they were about 1.3MB a piece). Am I missing some setting in ConvertX? Thank you.
Attachments
ConvertXtoDVD 5_mainlog_.20131111.020249.056.log
(10.37 KiB) Downloaded 25 times
Source.jpg
ConvertXtoDVD5.jpg
AnotherEncoder.jpg
JohnD
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:18 pm

Re: Quality question

Postby JJ » Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:52 pm

Both lower pics look the same to me, minor differences can be due movement - they are not the same frame. Pianists head is in different position in all three so comparison is not exact.

Check that there is no enhancing in your software player, most are changing the picture a little, usually giving more color or contrast.
Since you are converting such a short movie, you do not need to use 2-pass, it just wastes time.

Uncheck burn to dvd and check quality from converted folder, if it is good, then burn.
-------------------------------------------------------
http://www.click2give4free.com/val.php?v=739
This link is just for spammers, don't click!
User avatar
JJ
 
Posts: 5664
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:25 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Quality question

Postby JohnD » Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:23 pm

True, the frames are a small fraction of a second different, but they are 99.9 the same, and player is the same so we can probably rule out your enhancement concern. Anyway, before I spend time perfecting the evidence, let's assume for a moment that I could attach another pair of shots that would prove my point. Would there be a remedy? If so, I will attach another pair. Thank you.
JohnD
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:18 pm

Re: Quality question

Postby JohnD » Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:18 am

OK, I encoded again, addressing all your comments, and attached 2 screen shots and a log. Again the free tool, which has audio trouble, looks better. My initial question remains. Thank you.
Attachments
ConvertXtoDVD 5_crashlog_.20131111.181632.814.log
(7.32 KiB) Downloaded 26 times
HCenc.JPG
ConvertX.JPG
JohnD
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:18 pm

Re: Quality question

Postby ckhouston » Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:47 am

I and another user have compared ConvertX with the Henc encoder and found that ConvertX gives slightly better quality in complex scenes but slightly lower, hardly noticeable, quality in simple scenes like yours.

However, the difference should not be as much as your images show. The only fair way to compare encodes is to capture the exact same encoded frame in a video editor and the captured frames have to be of the same type -- there are three frame types of varying quality used in DVD encoding. I can and have shown captures of adjacent frames only 1/30 second apart with more quality differences than yours.

You must be seeing a quality difference while viewing though so I wonder if there is a cause for the difference. What resize filter did you use in ConvertX -- the source has to be resized from 1920x1080 down to 720x480 DVD resolution which is a considerable reduction?
ckhouston
 
Posts: 4465
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:12 am

Re: Quality question

Postby JohnD » Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:21 pm

I didn't make a conscious choice about resize filter but I just checked and it is "Linear (VSO)." I attached the Settings, Video Processing dialog. Thanks.
Attachments
resizefilter.JPG
JohnD
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:18 pm

Re: Quality question

Postby JohnD » Tue Nov 12, 2013 3:34 pm

ckhouston, regarding your resolution concern, I have attached a comparison of VLC's assessments of each video. Thanks.
Attachments
VLC_info_HCenc.JPG
VLC_info_ConvertX.JPG
JohnD
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:18 pm

Re: Quality question

Postby ckhouston » Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:19 pm

You have a 1920x1080 resolution source that has to be reduced to 720x480, a reduction to only 16.7% as many points as in the original. The video properties at each of the new 720x480 points have to be estimated from those in the source, the resize filter does that job so it is important. However the Linear filter you used normally does a better job than your images show, so you will need to do some tests to find the cause of the problem. I know that is asking a lot but you may help yourself and many other users at the same time.

Here is what I hope you will do and report back with the results of each step:

1. Uncheck the "Best video quality setting" but leave everything else the same. Most users report that they see no improvement with it and that will shorten your conversion time a lot, might even improve quality in your case.

2. If step 1. has no effect leave the "Best video quality setting" off, otherwise turn it back on. Then change the "Resize filter for downscaling" to Lanczos and re-run.

3. If still no improvement to about the same quality of Henc results, download the old 5.0.0.45 version from http://www.afterdawn.com/software/audio ... /v5_0_0_45 and convert with it after changing the resize filter to Lanczos. The reason for this test is to check if some changes to the program's encoding that were made in later versions may be causing your problem.
ckhouston
 
Posts: 4465
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:12 am

Re: Quality question

Postby JohnD » Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:05 pm

ckhouston, thanks for the suggestions, and I was happy to perform them for the reasons you cited. Here is my report, numbered to correspond with your instructions (1-3), plus some additional tests (4-5) of mine.
Terms: "Original" means file source was 39GB .mov file, 1920x1080. "Result" means VOB files viewed in VLC.

1. ConvertXtoDVD ver.5102: Source original, Best Quality checkbox unticked, VSO linear downscaling (default): The resulting color saturation and contrast result were slightly worse with BQ unticked.

2. Ver.5102: Source original, BQ checkbox ticked, Lanczos downscaling: Result was slightly sharper with Lanczos than with Linear.

3. Older ver.50045: Source had to change, BQ checkbox ticked, Lanczos downscaling: The older version of Convertx crashed immediately upon selecting the huge original source file. This behavior is obviously corrected in the newer version. So, In order to run test 3 with the older version of Convertx, I converted and downsized the original file from a 39GB .mov file to a 2GB .mp4 file using Handbrake, leaving the resolution at 1920x1080, and the Handbrake "high profile" defaults. Amazingly, there was no visible loss of color saturation, contrast, or sharpness in the Handbrake mp4. I then ran test 3 using the mp4 source, and the result was quite good! The color saturation and contrast of the Convertx result was essentially the same as the source however it lost some sharpness, which I would expect when downsizing resolution from 1920x1080 to 720x480 for DVD.

5. Ver.5102: Source mp4, BQ checkbox ticked, Lanczos downscaling: Back to the newer version to compare results to the old version using the mp4 source. Color saturation, contrast, and sharpness were essentially the same as with ver.50045, all other things equal.

Conclusion: The Handbrake downsizing step proved essential to preserving the quality of the original huge, high quality source, in both versions of Convertx. And it was required in the older version to allow processing. In order to achieve the best color and sharpness, tick "Use best video quality" and use Lanczos downscaling. As a side note, the newer version produces significantly less color saturation and contrast compared to the older version when Linear (default) downscaling is used in both. In that scenario, the newer version also produces less VOB data than the older version (1.8GB vs. 2.3GB in this case). Thanks.
Attachments
OrigSource.JPG
ConvertxWithHandbrake.JPG
JohnD
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:18 pm

Re: Quality question

Postby JohnD » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:57 am

(Test 4 is missing because I integrated it into 3 and forgot to renumber 5 to 4.)
JohnD
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:18 pm

Re: Quality question

Postby ckhouston » Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:51 pm

Good report, thanks.

The reason you needed to use Handbrake is probably due to less than perfect compatibility of mov files in ConvertX, not their large size. I have had small files of another type that benefited from converting their format to mp4 before using in ConvertX. That extra encoding step does reduce quality unfortunately.

It would be interesting for you to check how well VSO's new Video Converter program will transcode your mov file to mp4 format, you may be able to do so without buying the program. Then compare that result with Handbrake's to see if Video Converter is any more compatible with mov files than ConvertX.
ckhouston
 
Posts: 4465
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:12 am

Re: Quality question

Postby JohnD » Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:07 pm

I took a quick run at this and hit a snag - it says the encoding duration is limited to 10 minutes because the profile I selected is not free. I chose mp4 and H264 because that corresponds to Handbrake settings. Can you suggest settings I can use that will satisfy your curiosity?
JohnD
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:18 pm

Re: Quality question

Postby JohnD » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:01 pm

I went ahead and clicked Try to get 10 minutes using the settings above, and the app immediately threw a non-specific error, attached. Thanks.
Attachments
log.JPG
error.JPG
JohnD
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:18 pm

Re: Quality question

Postby ckhouston » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:55 pm

Thanks for checking.

Looks like VSO products are not very compatible with Apple products. Apple releases very little info about their products so many programs have problems with them. I personally do not use Apple products or anything that uses them because of that.
ckhouston
 
Posts: 4465
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:12 am

Re: Quality question

Postby JohnD » Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:16 pm

Yaa, me neither, but this footage was shot by a videographer who does. Thanks.
JohnD
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:18 pm

Re: Quality question

Postby Claire » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:30 am

Hi,
Great work guys.

It seems we need to improve our color space conversion from YUV422P10LE to YUV420P
that could explain why in CXD converting the MOV file to DVD color is not great, but as the other software has already done the color conversion when creating the MP4 file the problem does not exist when CXD converts the MP4 file.

Bug entered here:
http://bugs.vso-software.fr/view.php?id=7283
User avatar
Claire
VSO Team Member
 
Posts: 4659
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:39 pm
Location: France

Re: Quality question

Postby ckhouston » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:15 pm

Thanks Claire. It's good that the extra work JohnD did on this will benefit other people in the future.
ckhouston
 
Posts: 4465
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:12 am

Re: Quality question

Postby cedric » Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:37 am

Hello JohnD,

Thank you for all the work you done for this problem, can you confirm that it's fixed in last ConvertXtoDVD version (5.1.0.9):

latest-beta-of-convertxtodvd-5-0-0-78b-t17501.html

I'm waiting for your feedback...

Regards,
User avatar
cedric
 
Posts: 971
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 9:31 am
Location: Toulouse-FRANCE

Re: Quality question

Postby JohnD » Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:25 am

cedric,

I got to this today. I converted the original MOV file using the beta, and compared it with the best result I obtained in my earlier post (which was obtained by using Handbrake to convert and downsize the file before passing it to ConvertXtoDVD). Congratulations - the color depth issue is fixed in the beta (used 5.1.0.9b).

If you're interested, there's an issue unrelated to quality that I didn't mention before, and is still not fixed. Upon loading the original mov file (39GB, 1920x1080), the preview editor shows the 1st frame of the video as expected. However attempting to play or advance the slider deeper into the video yields a blank green frame, which does not resolve in time. My PC has an i7 and runs Win7 64bit with 8GB ram (I know your app is 32bit so it won't use all that). Today, I spent a little time on this and found a smaller mov, both in size and resolution. The smaller file worked fine. It was just 6MB, 352x288. Anyway, thanks for your earlier support.

-John
JohnD
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:18 pm

Re: Quality question

Postby Claire » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:05 pm

Hi JohnD,

Thanks for confirming your fix.

As for the problem with the MOV file, could you send it to us? I've sent instructions by private message.

Thanks so much.
User avatar
Claire
VSO Team Member
 
Posts: 4659
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:39 pm
Location: France

Next

Return to ConvertXtoDVD 5

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests